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Upgrade rates, item droprates and bus droprates


perhana
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Wanted to make a topic to discuss these things together, since every aspect affects everything else.

Item droprate:
+1 highclass droprate with a working full party is about 20-25 items per hour. This feels pretty nice, but unless other features are adjusted it doesn't feel well thought out.

Bus droprate:
This varies but just an estimation lets say it's about the same when soloing beast/seeker spot 20-25 per hour
I feel the BUS droprate is going to be a problem, there are only few spots. Farming is soloable, but raiding and the number of spots is going to be an issue.
Well problem might be a strong word, but if the best farm in the server (BUS is more in demand than highclass items) is solo, it takes alot away from the farming aspect.
One solution to help the upgrading is boost the BUS droprate in everywhere or maybe in CZ, but after that you need to limit the price you get from selling to npc or make it unsellable.
One thing is to boost the droprate alot in for example AOC or AOF so that there are possibilities for parties to also farm BUS. (ALSO need to check the price you get from NPC)

Upgrade rates are too bit too easy. If items come this easy, upgrading chances need to be lowered.
We made +7 raptors for all of our warriors easily in the second day of beta and there are not even trinas available.
Once you add trinas to the mix, it's going to be +8 rappys in the first week of launch to the hardcore gamers.

Uniques:
some uniques seem to be dropping just a little bit too much.
Multiple Rol & Roc every day is not good for the game. In this version Bach and Duke are so easy, they are free solo kills to whoever finds it first.
This means high chance of basically best uniques dropping to "casual" players multiple times a day = them coming available for babashoppers in the first week. 
This further makes the case of endgame gear being done in 2 weeks. If it was something like 1 rol & roc per day it would be better for the server longetivity in my opinion.

So basically in 2 weeks there is not much farming left to do. I know there are ways to improve your gear, but it's not much or not "worth the farm".  
As it is now, it feels like rates have not been tweaked and thought about enough. 

I dont have many answers but lets discuss these things in this topic.

Edited by perhana
edited to cover uniques in the post
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I've made a raptor +7 as well but something that I was thinking about and I considered that is relevant to consider is that there isn't ,almost none, raids or that many people farming at same spot (consider that is all the opposite for the official). I left with genie with a random party like 4 hours or more without being bothered, I've got a total of 30 raptors (in the whole beta atm) probably which is a lot being honest but, as i said, you have to consider it's beta.
Funny fact is that I won't touch like 20 raptors I have because I don't have any upgrade scroll haha.

Edited by LuckyHit
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With current ratios making +7 from +1 is roughly 5.4% (0.8 x 0.45 x 0.15 = 0.054)

So 1 out of 20 +1 you can make +7, I think this is kinda reasonable but if you want to reduce it slightly you could maybe make it so that 3-4 is 90%,this would reduce the chance to 4.9%~ (+1 to +7).

But yeah there definitely is an issue with the ratios overall like Perhana stated. I would tackle the issue by lowering the drop ratios of items especially high class weapons instead of touching the upgrade rates too much. If you are able target farm 20 raptors from Dark Knights in a hour there is a problem. I would reduce the drop chance especially from mobs that have small pool of high class items, like DKs and lower it a bit from monsters that can drop pretty much all high class items like DMs (Assuming they have high drop chance for high class items as well at the moment).

Also BUS farm needs to be adjusted like stated above, hopefully adding some group farm spots and ofc leaving some solo farm spots for solo players. Talking about CZ since we don't want best spot for BUS:es being a genie party outside PVP zones.

 

If you truly want this server to last over a month, you shouldn't be able to cap your character easily in that time. (Counting out baba shoppers and 24/7 players or account sharers)

Later you can implement some catch up mechanics for newer players.

How to fight VS Noah inflation? You could roughly remove 0 from every item bought/sold and from monster drops, but this is quite a bit of work. You should definitely double check all the items how much they vendor like the basic attack/def scrolls from Treants, make it so that you can't vendor BUS:es.
Ultimate goal would be that you could merchant items that you normally wouldn't HB7 or so for example.

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2 hours ago, Aesteris said:

We agree with most things (aside from BUS drops) and will be reducing high class weapon drops before official - I'm interested to hear why nobody seems to think buying BUS from the NPC is a viable option.

Would be a good idea haha. The thing would be that nobody has money to buy them, if we see through the 'BUS THING' you will see that the whole point is based on: Blood seekers are hard to farm because of spots being full, many people, low drop rate, so at the end you won't get anything to sell to the npc in order to get coins. I know there are other way to get coins, but probably they are talking about getting BUS only via Blood seekers

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6 hours ago, Aesteris said:

We agree with most things (aside from BUS drops) and will be reducing high class weapon drops before official - I'm interested to hear why nobody seems to think buying BUS from the NPC is a viable option.

A disconnect between the inflow of noah and high class weapons, as well as BUS being incredibly easy to get your hands on.

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14 hours ago, Aesteris said:

We agree with most things (aside from BUS drops) and will be reducing high class weapon drops before official - I'm interested to hear why nobody seems to think buying BUS from the NPC is a viable option.

To be completely honest, I was just really used to private servers having place to farm BUS. Buying them from NPC would at least help keep the noah inflation in check.

Now that I think of it I think it's more than fine not being able to power farm BUS, people are just way too used to this.

Making BUS rare drop would probably prolong the servers life since it would reduce the amount of upgrades by a ton, sorry for being obvious :D . You can still keep them on riotes/atross etc so running bowl would be more efficient and it would bring more players to the bowl.

edit: Have you thought about spreading the drop pools bit wider for each monster, I don't really think that it's too healthy for the server that you can target farm items so efficiently ( I know you reduced drop rates) but like DK:s only dropping raptors and BUS is bit too good imo. If you think how most Mykos have it that you need to farm DMS and then you have chance from like 20 different highclass items to get 1 raptor. DK:s will also be way overpopulated if they are the main place to get raptors and well top clans will just sit on them and lesser clans or smaller groups might leave due to stuff like this. There should be more options and less easy target farm.

Edited by Rexi
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4 hours ago, Rexi said:

Now that I think of it I think it's more than fine not being able to power farm BUS, people are just way too used to this.
 

That's true, the main idea of the server is not to have a spot that drop BUS on a 100%, and that shouldn't be an issue in terms of longetivity for the server, may be an issue for people but it's something that we have to deal with. As you said, we are just way too used to this.
So, I'd say that it should stay like it is

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Item specific like said above it should be just high class items to help stop an influx of 100's of raptors and shard being farmed. 
Keep bus high for monsters in cz bowl? then keep low for everything else and make it most monsters not just one group of monsters.

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