Mining and fishing discussion.

[muffzord]

Hey,

Since this subject of mining and fishing is raised couple times a day on the shoutbox I thought it would be good idea to put our thoughts about it in one place.

As a topic creator I will go first and tell you all what i think about it.

 

To me idea of a farm server is that players need to kill mobs in order to gain items/cash and gear up.

This way admins can easily adjust mobs drop rates depends on the type of server - whether its light or hard farm server - and on the players needs that can change with time.

Personally, I wouldn't mind if mining/fishing was disabled completely. Leaving KO running 24/7 seems to be a really low level type of 'activity' for someone who is not capable of getting items other way . At least thats how I see it.

 

There are few aspects of fishing/mining that need to be discussed:

- players use multiple clients to fish/mine and get advantage 

I think that there will be always some players willing to turn on multiple pcs to get more items/cash than others. Whether they will use them for fish/mine/farm with genie. - its unavoidable.

Best solution is to lower rates enough to make multi accounts less beneficial.

 

- fishing/mining being best way of getting items

Thats how it was before. Only a few people were farming because fishing/mining was convenient, afk-able and gave real good drops.

This time it should be clear that best items are obtainable by killing mobs.

 

- solo players have no chance to keep up with top clan members without decent fishing/mining drops/rates.

At least thats what i heard and many people think so. It is a fact that big clan members have easier way to get better items but thats how this game works. No one should play solo, it is a damn MMORPG.

However I realize that there are some people that like to play solo or join server a bit later. That is why there should be farm spots in CZ and Eslant as well. So less geared solo players would have a chance to gear up in peace.

 

I could type a lot more here as its influence on servers economy is huge. To sum up:

 

- I like drops and rates from mining and fishing like its at this moment.

- Rainworm needed to fish is a good thing - becuase fishing now gives materials for armors, it prevents getting huge amount of stackable items of some value.

- The difference between normal mattock/rod and golden ones should be only in drop rates.

- Ronark land and Eslant mobs should be boosted to drop items, BUS, coins (gold coins) at higher rate - Im not going to list here specifically, what mob should drop which items but definately BUS should drop from every mob at different rates depending on how hard it is to kill. Cardinal spots were good before, didnt check them during this beta though. Eslant drop rates should be a bit lower than CZs and with no exceptional weapons - we should try to keep all the action in Ronark land.

 

Player who is active and spends his time in game on different activites should get the most benefits. 'No-lifer' or not, he deserves it.

 

Please, let us know what you guys think.

 

 

 

 

[azreal313]

100% agree with everything you said, I think that there should be CZ farm mobs in Eslant, however I think they should drop their good items at a lower rate than the ones in CZ so there is a benefit to farming where its dangerous, while also letting weaker players get the same chance at high level weapons and armours as the stronger players in CZ.

[DHC]

I don't think that earth worm should be required with Golden Rod.

 

Just lower the drop rate on the materials and bus... You still have to repair the Golden Rod anyway and clear inventory etc, at the worst you can lower the price of BUS too

[PawnU]

+1 for most part.

 

I wouldnt say all the action should take place in ronark. With gap between players growing day by day (due to multi account stuff or usd), eslant should still be a good alternative to a certain point at least.

 

As it is right now farming and selling junk doesnt compare to mining, i totally agree with boosting golden coins drop.

 

I'd also add silver bar/gold bar dropping with low rate off some mobs that would require at least 5 ppl party to farm with some avarage gear like chitins +7, rap +7. There may be mobs which drop high class stuff, but we still need gold to upgrade it. Bosses could eventually have a chance to drop gold bars as well.

 

Totally agree with part about golden mattock/rod drops beeing same as normal, but with better rate.

[Sub]

I agree with the mining and fishing rates need to be less beneficial so players have to kill mobs. This is not an afk game. And we don't want players setting up VM's so can have multiple accounts fishing or mining to get items or money.

 

Similar mobs in eslant to CZ would be good, with lower drop rates on items. New players won't go CZ to farm if get killed over and over, coz players that been there for 1 month already geared and just interested in nps now. Need alternative for them, so eslant farming be good. 

[Aesteris]

I don't think that earth worm should be required with Golden Rod.

 

Just lower the drop rate on the materials and bus... You still have to repair the Golden Rod anyway and clear inventory etc, at the worst you can lower the price of BUS too

 

I doubt you would enjoy that change; Let's pull some math into this disregarding the fact you need to repair :

 

In an hour, 720 attempts are made to get an item from fishing.

To be able to fish for an hour, considering the rate at which a rainworm "drops" from fishing, You need 654 rainworms.

To get 654 rainworms, you need to mine in EMC / Luferson for anywhere between 2.6h to 6h (2.6h if you're using the golden mattock, 6h if you're not). To average this out "fairly" we'd take the average of the 2, as some people will be using a golden mattock and a golden fishing rod, whereas some will only have a golden fishing rod. This puts us at 4.3h, now looking lets see, what does this mean for the BUS drop rate from Fishing for example? Currently, you're getting ~36 BUS per hour (statistical average), disregarding repair trips. If we were to remove the rainworms, you'll be getting 36 / (4.3h + 1h) = 6.8 BUS per hour, again disregarding the trips to repair your rod. Let's take another item - the advanced leather for example. You're currently getting about 1.8 of those per hour, removing the rainworm requirement will put it at 0.34 per hour.

 

I doubt a lot of people are willing to "take the hit" to the rate if we were to remove the rainworm requirement. Fishing isn't meant to get you to super shells, playing the game is (doing everything, or a large part of, everything we've got to offer).

 

Now, to the issue of mining / fishing characters - there are actually measures in place (though currently disabled, as I want to see the "best scenario" for everyone during this beta) which nerf the mining and fishing rates by up to 3 times, depending on various (obv. non-disclosed) criteria of your character. So, by my calculations, and by keeping the criteria to these dynamic rate changes a secret, I expect someone to need at least 4 characters mining or fishing at the same time (all with the golden mattock / golden fishing rod) to be able to obtain the same rate as someone who is "legit" and just plays the game and uses mining / fishing as an activity to do when they don't have a lot of time on their hands.

 

Lastly, "but what about macros" - in short, we can't block them from being used entirely, but we can make life hard on them, as a macro (not an actual cheat) can't determine (for example) the location of an NPC in the game. Did I hear anyone say "give us a patrolling inn hostess and sundries behind the fishing spot /mining spot"? Perhaps.

 

EDIT:

 

As for the golden should only be a rate increase - it is just that - a rate increase. If anyone finds any discrepancy (though I don't see how) between the use of a normal one versus a golden one, let me know and I'll get it fixed asap

[DHC]

I doubt you would enjoy that change; Let's pull some math into this disregarding the fact you need to repair :

 

In an hour, 720 attempts are made to get an item from fishing.

To be able to fish for an hour, considering the rate at which a rainworm "drops" from fishing, You need 654 rainworms.

To get 654 rainworms, you need to mine in EMC / Luferson for anywhere between 2.6h to 6h (2.6h if you're using the golden mattock, 6h if you're not). To average this out "fairly" we'd take the average of the 2, as some people will be using a golden mattock and a golden fishing rod, whereas some will only have a golden fishing rod. This puts us at 4.3h, now looking lets see, what does this mean for the BUS drop rate from Fishing for example? Currently, you're getting ~36 BUS per hour (statistical average), disregarding repair trips. If we were to remove the rainworms, you'll be getting 36 / (4.3h + 1h) = 6.8 BUS per hour, again disregarding the trips to repair your rod. Let's take another item - the advanced leather for example. You're currently getting about 1.8 of those per hour, removing the rainworm requirement will put it at 0.34 per hour.

 

I doubt a lot of people are willing to "take the hit" to the rate if we were to remove the rainworm requirement. Fishing isn't meant to get you to super shells, playing the game is (doing everything, or a large part of, everything we've got to offer).

 

Now, to the issue of mining / fishing characters - there are actually measures in place (though currently disabled, as I want to see the "best scenario" for everyone during this beta) which nerf the mining and fishing rates by up to 3 times, depending on various (obv. non-disclosed) criteria of your character. So, by my calculations, and by keeping the criteria to these dynamic rate changes a secret, I expect someone to need at least 4 characters mining or fishing at the same time (all with the golden mattock / golden fishing rod) to be able to obtain the same rate as someone who is "legit" and just plays the game and uses mining / fishing as an activity to do when they don't have a lot of time on their hands.

 

Lastly, "but what about macros" - in short, we can't block them from being used entirely, but we can make life hard on them, as a macro (not an actual cheat) can't determine (for example) the location of an NPC in the game. Did I hear anyone say "give us a patrolling inn hostess and sundries behind the fishing spot /mining spot"? Perhaps.

 

EDIT:

 

As for the golden should only be a rate increase - it is just that - a rate increase. If anyone finds any discrepancy (though I don't see how) between the use of a normal one versus a golden one, let me know and I'll get it fixed asap

 

Wait what? Sorry I haven't sleep so bare with me, I don't see how you would get less BUS if you removed the rain worm requirement.

 

Nobody wants to spend 6+ hours mining just so they can go and fish some BUS...

 

Surely removing the requirement for rain worm and just lowering the BUS to say 10 an hour would be better?  That way it's still a lot better to farm BUS at cardinals or somewhere else etc but still giving people that can't be online all the time a helping hand. So that's down from 36 BUS to 10 BUS, and then to add it off the sale value of BUS could be reduced.

 

Hmm ... need more coffee!

[azreal313]

Wait what? Sorry I haven't sleep so bare with me, I don't see how you would get less BUS if you removed the rain worm requirement.

 

Nobody wants to spend 6+ hours mining just so they can go and fish some BUS...

 

Surely removing the requirement for rain worm and just lowering the BUS to say 10 an hour would be better?  That way it's still a lot better to farm BUS at cardinals or somewhere else etc but still giving people that can't be online all the time a helping hand. So that's down from 36 BUS to 10 BUS, and then to add it off the sale value of BUS could be reduced.

 

Hmm ... need more coffee!

I may be wrong but I believe that he's talking about removing the rainworm requirement but also lowering the BUS and armour scrap yields as you suggested.

[DHC]

I may be wrong but I believe that he's talking about removing the rainworm requirement but also lowering the BUS and armour scrap yields as you suggested.

 

I thought so but then the simple solution is don't lower the yields by such a drastic amount

[azreal313]

I thought so but then the simple solution is don't lower the yields by such a drastic amount

 

Don't ask me homie, he's the guy with all the data and math

[Windmere]

Mining and fishing should be an alternative way to gear up.  With just fishing and mining you can get myth / DF etc. +9, but... without actually farming, that will be the limitation.  You will not be able to get Krowaz.

[azreal313]

Mining and fishing should be an alternative way to gear up.  With just fishing and mining you can get myth / DF etc. +9, but... without actually farming, that will be the limitation.  You will not be able to get Krowaz.

No, if its as effective for gearing up as actual farming then you'll just have everyone afking mining/fishing and the server will be dead, just like last release.

[Alemekko12]

So you guys just want to be golden rood useless ? Just change the rates,cause u cant block somebody who wants to passive farm,the always find the ways.And also it is not fair for exp premium users,they will get gift which is golden rood and they cant use it ? Imagine He/She exp all the day and wants to stay like 2 4 hours in fishing when he/she watching movie and you are gonna block him ? So whats the plan for mining ?

Also about ronark land farming slot idea is not gonna work.Cause imagine you are the top of the clan u are 1 pt full and you are farming and also you want to get some pk.What u gonna do ? Farm and pk the way is just kill the another nation slot members.That is also problem.Do not bound all the farm slots to the ronark land please.

And also think about the some of us gonna pay real money like 12000 cash and get some items in this way,if you block some farm ways its completely unfair for the rest.


I suggest just remove rainworm and change the rates of drops.Then its ok for all of us.


This is my opinion,if i wrote unrespectfull things or words sorry,just try to explain most of us opinions.

[Aesteris]

So you guys just want to be golden rood useless ? Just change the rates,cause u cant block somebody who wants to passive farm,the always find the ways.And also it is not fair for exp premium users,they will get gift which is golden rood and they cant use it ? Imagine He/She exp all the day and wants to stay like 2 4 hours in fishing when he/she watching movie and you are gonna block him ? So whats the plan for mining ?

 

Also about ronark land farming slot idea is not gonna work.Cause imagine you are the top of the clan u are 1 pt full and you are farming and also you want to get some pk.What u gonna do ? Farm and pk the way is just kill the another nation slot members.That is also problem.Do not bound all the farm slots to the ronark land please.

 

And also think about the some of us gonna pay real money like 12000 cash and get some items in this way,if you block some farm ways its completely unfair for the rest.

 

 

I suggest just remove rainworm and change the rates of drops.Then its ok for all of us.

 

 

This is my opinion,if i wrote unrespectfull things or words sorry,just try to explain most of us opinions.

 

Thank you for expressing your views - there is a difference between "blocking someone from passive farming" and having an acceptable rate promoting active game play rather than passive. Your views most likely don't represent the entirety of the server, and although "even USKO doesn't require rainworms" in USKO the golden rod vouchers are worthless for a reason (it's shit compared to mining). I do agree that we need to ensure other ways to farm these items are there available for everyone across multiple slots though - which is something we'll be going over for sure!

[azreal313]

Thank you for expressing your views - there is a difference between "blocking someone from passive farming" and having an acceptable rate promoting active game play rather than passive. Your views most likely don't represent the entirety of the server, and although "even USKO doesn't require rainworms" in USKO the golden rod vouchers are worthless for a reason (it's shit compared to mining). I do agree that we need to ensure other ways to farm these items are there available for everyone across multiple slots though - which is something we'll be going over for sure!

 

Amen.

[Aesteris]

I thought so but then the simple solution is don't lower the yields by such a drastic amount

 

The simple solution isn't so simple - I'm very happy with the rates I've set fishing to be at, and don't intend to make it much better, hence the "drastic" amount is simply a reflection of what the rates would be like without the requirement to have rainworms. I don't mind to offer everyone a completely passive way of doing things, but like I pointed out, few will be willing to take the hit (which is really just keeping the rates exactly the same across the board), which seemingly includes you, already suggesting to just not lower the yields by such drastic amounts.

 

Anyhow, there's things to be said for both sides, I personally think the reason some people are crying over the rates as they are is because they may have grown too accustomed to the AFK (be it manually or with the use of a macro) gearing present in the previous server. I'd like to think of mining and fishing as an extra activity added to the game which you can make use of, but don't have to (and even shouldn't to stay competitive).

 

Nevertheless, I'm still open to good suggestions (reducing the selling price of BUS to the NPC is not a good suggestion, it can't be done without decreasing the price to buy it from the NPC in the first place, as far as I know anyway)

[Alemekko12]

So as i understood golden rood gonna be useless ? We have mine like 1 week to fishin 2 days Nice.

[azreal313]

So as i understood golden rood gonna be useless ? We have mine like 1 week to fishin 2 days Nice.

How is it useless? It gives you a faster yield on the things you can get from fishing than a regular rod, that's literally its entire purpose, same with the golden mattock, it just increases the rate of getting items from mining, I don't see the problem.

[Alemekko12]

Yeah u dont see problem its ok.Its useless 1 week mining for 2 days fishing maybe less are you kidding ? I will buy exp premium its gonna give me gift which is golden rod and if i want to use it i have to mine ? What about exp ?

U miss 1 point u cant stop multi guys.They always gonna be better if this rule cause of multi ppl

[Aesteris]

Yeah u dont see problem its ok.Its useless 1 week mining for 2 days fishing maybe less are you kidding ? I will buy exp premium its gonna give me gift which is golden rod and if i want to use it i have to mine ? What about exp ?

 

U miss 1 point u cant stop multi guys.They always gonna be better if this rule cause of multi ppl

 

If we're missing that point, how is increasing the yield you get from fishing going to stop this advantage you're talking about?

 

I honestly don't know how :/

[Alemekko12]

No,I mean if somebody play with 2-3 characters he can find another way.

As i understood the problem is getting a lot of buss and its gonna be more gold bars for the merchant ?

So if the buss rate is problem just make it equal with normal rod then who wants to get money from bus do from that way,in this situation items gonna be more price like 20gb instead of 2gb.Maybe this is gonna be solution

And also (I dont know is this possible) u can make untradable the dragon shells which is making materials which is sombody getting them by fishing

But blocking golden fish not fair just tell me the fair side about this ?

Please do not get me wrong i just try to find fair way i dont have 2 3 pc,but i will buy exp premium and when i sleepy i just wanna do fishing thats all.

[azreal313]

What the hell do you mean by "blocking golden fish" that makes no sense?

[Alemekko12]

What the hell do you mean by "blocking golden fish" that makes no sense?

So you think 1 week mining for getting rainworms which is enough just 2 days of fishing is not blocking the fishing ? Sorry

[azreal313]

So you think 1 week mining for getting rainworms which is enough just 2 days of fishing is not blocking the fishing ? Sorry

 

>Abyss gems and occasional red chests from mining

>Ingredients for High level Armour from fishing and also red chests, monster stones etc.

I don't see your point, it makes sense.

[Alemekko12]

What the hell are you talking, I am talking about the rainworm shit,i know this.

Because of rainworm we cant do fishing by golden rod.So if i want to fishing by golden rod i dont have to need rainworm.In this situation fishing needs mining.But i dont want to waste my time with 1 week mining for getting rainworm which is enoug for 2 days.