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Hey everyone,

 

We have been getting plenty of complaints regarding the warrior AoE skills being overpowered, that's the reason we decided to open this topic.

We're aware that we have it set exactly the same as official servers now but it seems massively overpowered.

 

What's your take on it, should we change it? If yes, what would be the viable numbers in terms of lowering the damage?

Note that the reason the damages are as high as they are is because the stronger warriors are running around in +9 weapons/armors and +2 AP sets.

 

We would especially love to get input from melee users on how they feel about this.

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My personal opinion on AoE skills in general is that they shouldn't deal as much damage (per person) as your single-target option (which I believe is the case here); their usefulness relies on hitting multiple targets. It shouldn't be as viable for single-target as it is for multiple targets; you want to be able to say well I'm using skill X because it's more beneficial in this specific situation. Not "this skill is good for literally every situation so I should use it always"; there's no fun in that.

 

I'm personally not overly familiar with warriors' toolkit and the general damages of their skills (it's not really my thing), but if that's what's happening here things could use a little tuning. Not to the point of nerfing the class, but just ensuring damages better reflect how they're used so you have options, while generally being penalised for poor situational use.

 

Regarding the change to this skill: fixing the range was vital to the use of this skill. There's no question of that; we won't be reverting that, because it was broken before (to the point of not really being able to use it). So I fully stand by fixing it so the skill's usable -- and its new range (the official range) really isn't that large, either. It really just comes down to the skill's damage output, which had not been touched.

 

In general, we dislike straying from official behaviour unless there's a very good reason, so skill accuracy (which this is; it's accurate as it is right now) is something we prefer not to compromise on.

However, this thread is aimed at debating whether or not it is indeed in need of adjusting for such a reason (and what that reason really boils down to).

It's been suggested in the shoutbox that it doesn't really work here because player HP is different to official because we're lacking whatever current armour they're using now.
Whether or not this is correct, I'm not personally sure of, but I figured it was worth mentioning.

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You thinkin correctly and my thoughts are.Mage teams right now playing as a 7 mage and 1 priest which is mostly 45 spirit-75 heal-master23.So they cant run away from torment i mean they dont have 70 auro(party cure).So they take full damage from warriors :).I played both job.If you guys want to fight with melee teams they need to play according to that for example 6 mage 2 priest.With this way they can prevent from torment and also they have subside for warriors dmg.But instead mage teams want to use single supernova everysingle position :D.You guys need to go usko(which is source of our game) and check .I saw +4k dmg in usko from berserker Aoe.For the conclusion what i am saying is instead of nerf warrior's Aoe you guys need to chance way of playing as a mage team :).Thanks all  by the way this is very good topic.We need to come up with a logical solution so our player's stay with us.

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If its changed then maybe it will be tough for the melee party to kill mages(in group). But yeah the AOE damage is overpowered when the melee goes on with there group. 

Will say make it decent. Or else many mages will quit and it will be warrior server .

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Imo warrior aoe shouldn't even be a thing. (Not saying to delete it now, but it was a pretty bad move imo in general when it was added at usko. Same shit as krowaz weapons and those unbalanced shitty curses like why only certain classes having chaos curses and the more luck based vses and pks that comes with the curses) Giving the already highest dmging and most tanky class who can save themselves by descenting too, an aoe skill that hits over thousands of dmges, low cooldown time, basicly insta casting is just way too much.

 

Or ok, let's follow this logic, malees needed some kinda aoe too to counter big mage teams or whatever, but why doesn't priests or sins having similar AOEs too? Why is it only the warrior class getting such a melee aoe and the rest not?

 

 

Anyway it's a thing already. Imo the dmgs are so-so, could be a lil less, but what makes it kinda broken imo is the fast casting time (you can cast like 4 warrior aoe in the same amount of time while a mage throw like 2 nova . And i'd increase the skill's cooldown too abit.

 

 

Long story short, imo the main problem lies in the insta casting, there is no such a thing like "oh look they will aoe" they can basicly just run and aoe too while running anytime they want which is broken imo.

 

 

 

PS.: To any1 saying "i saw this and that dmg at usko too" let's not compare dmgs here with almost every1 in +9 / +2 to servers where the gear gap is waaaaaay bigger... Fully +3 / +11 ---> +21 guys will obviously hit more, especially on randoms whos not even having irons or krowaz armors..

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I don't think the problem is the mages playstyle. Even if they run with 4 priests they will still die from the 6x instant aoe from warriors if timed properly. And no, a cure and torment wont save you if the warriors use the skill at the same time.

 

The problem is (as someone else all ready mentioned) the instant cast time. When mages go to nova, priests can prepare and throw a heal. Warriors can just instant spam 2k dmg to 8 ppl..

 

I just don't see why a melee class has better AoE dmg, more health and more AC than a mage which main purpose is effectice use of its AoE skills while trying to avoid dmg because of his less than 7k HP. Also with the nerfed dmg and stun rate mages has no chance of playing defensive and killing the melees from a distance to avoid the AoE dmg.

 

Lately I've been playing warrior and a decent melee party (even with full beginner items) can easily destroy a well geared mage pt.

I fear that mages will start playing like in usko where no clan goes to pk without atleast 12 mages in a group, and that shit just ain't fun for no one.

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Sizler ne konuştuğunuzun farkında değilsiniz. Burası usko değildir burası pvp serverdır. Uskoyu bırakan bizim gibi mage teamler sırf bu wariorlerin yeri vurma skilinin çok vurmasından ve uzağa vurmasından dolayı bırakıyorlar. Mageler 2-3 party gezsin 1 pt mele tek skille 2-3 party mageyi düşürsün öylemi ne kadar da mantıksız bir yorum. Bu şekilde devam ederse server da sadece mele party olucak ve user sayısı günden güne azalıcaktır. Bir server da mage party yok ise zaten o serverda zevkli bir oyun olması beklemeyin. Zaten çok vuruyorlardı şimdi range de yükselttiniz çok saçma bişey oldu. Clan olarak düşüncemiz warrior yere vurma skillerinin damagelerinin düşürülmesidir.

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Buraya yorum yapanların hepsi halinden memnun mele kesimi , Buradaki yorumları okuyarak hiç bir tanıya varamazsınız. Sadece bir gün akşam cz ye gelip 1 mage partynin içinde gezip neler yaşadığını görebilirsiniz veyahut gelin 1 mage açın partymize girin ve full + full itemli mage partynin nasıl 3 wariorun yere vurmasıyla saniyede ölüşünü görün . 

Herkez halinden memnun şekilde yorumlar atıyor zannediyorki bu mageler bu serverda bu haldeyken kalacak yakın zamanda açılacak xxx serverlarını bekliyor herkez sizde artık mele vs melede yere önce vuran kazanır mantığıyla oynarsınız 

Serverda İmir ve Fr +2 ler buglu  Npc den alınan dual +1 fr ile 8k kc verilip alınan dual +2 Fr aynı damageyi vuruyor , Biz bunu her aktardığımzda cevap alamadık ve üstüne cry skillerinin rangei ve damagesi arttı artık akşam pklarında mele rankda 50k kasarken mage 20k kasıyor 2-3 saat pk nın yarısı meleden kaçmakla geçiyor 

Bir sürü kişi zırvalamış uskoda şöyle uskoda böyle hayatlarında usko oynamamış veyahut uskoda birşeyler yapmış mage clanla oynamamış kişilerin böyle konuşmaları gerçekden çok komik , uskoda iyi oynayan bir mage pt mele ptyi herzaman kesmişdir . 

 

Şimdi sürekli mele damagesinin artmasını cry skillerinin rangenin uzamasını vs isteyenler istediğinz oldu ve bundan 1 hafta öncesinde cz geçdiğimzde rankda 200-220. iken şuanda 100-120. olabiliyoruz sadece alacağınz zevk 1 hafta idi ve onunda son 3 günündesinz cuma günü bu serverda hiçbir mage clan kalmayacak . 

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Buraya yorum yapanların hepsi halinden memnun mele kesimi , Buradaki yorumları okuyarak hiç bir tanıya varamazsınız. Sadece bir gün akşam cz ye gelip 1 mage partynin içinde gezip neler yaşadığını görebilirsiniz veyahut gelin 1 mage açın partymize girin ve full + full itemli mage partynin nasıl 3 wariorun yere vurmasıyla saniyede ölüşünü görün . 

Herkez halinden memnun şekilde yorumlar atıyor zannediyorki bu mageler bu serverda bu haldeyken kalacak yakın zamanda açılacak xxx serverlarını bekliyor herkez sizde artık mele vs melede yere önce vuran kazanır mantığıyla oynarsınız 

Serverda İmir ve Fr +2 ler buglu  Npc den alınan dual +1 fr ile 8k kc verilip alınan dual +2 Fr aynı damageyi vuruyor , Biz bunu her aktardığımzda cevap alamadık ve üstüne cry skillerinin rangei ve damagesi arttı artık akşam pklarında mele rankda 50k kasarken mage 20k kasıyor 2-3 saat pk nın yarısı meleden kaçmakla geçiyor 

Bir sürü kişi zırvalamış uskoda şöyle uskoda böyle hayatlarında usko oynamamış veyahut uskoda birşeyler yapmış mage clanla oynamamış kişilerin böyle konuşmaları gerçekden çok komik , uskoda iyi oynayan bir mage pt mele ptyi herzaman kesmişdir . 

 

Şimdi sürekli mele damagesinin artmasını cry skillerinin rangenin uzamasını vs isteyenler istediğinz oldu ve bundan 1 hafta öncesinde cz geçdiğimzde rankda 200-220. iken şuanda 100-120. olabiliyoruz sadece alacağınz zevk 1 hafta idi ve onunda son 3 günündesinz cuma günü bu serverda hiçbir mage clan kalmayacak . 

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Şuraya yorum yazan gerizekalılar perşembe günü ko pro açılıcak bu damageler bugün düşmezse Server mage kalacağını falanmı sanıyor ?? 

Server bug kaynıyor bu buglardan sadece 1 tanesi : Magelerin yüzüklerindeki bug. Flame Ring +2 , Imir Ring +2 , Shio Tears +2, Bu yüzükler buglu isteyen gidip deneyebilir npcden alınan +1 Flame ring , Imir Ring , Shio Tears , KC verip Aldığımız Flame Ring +2 , Imir Ring +2 , Shio Tears +2 ' den fazla vuruyor defalarca gmlere söylememe rağmen Sürekli oyaladınız yapması zor dediniz 3 gün dediniz 5 gün Dediniz sürekli meleyi üstün tuttunuz Range' sini arttırdınız Cry skillerinin damagesini arttırdınız . Fakat Mage yüzügündeki bugu düzeltmediniz..

Full + full mage çarımla max ulaştığım hp 7.390 İtemsiz bir warriorun yere vurma skiliyle vurduğu damage ise 2.500 3 tane warrior 1 ptyi yerle bir ediyor ve hâlâ daha Zırlıyor meleler mage fazla vuruyor diye. Ama bizim vurduğumuz Damage MAX MAX MAX 1k oda 70 novasıyla zaten biz elimizi kaldırıp indirene kadar warriorlar 2 tane yere vurabiliyorlar. 

Hangi Serverda görülmüştürki Cz Rankda mele 60k np kasar Mage 20k np kasar hangi Serverda görülmüş bu olay ? 

Fr +1 in fr damagesi 45 ken 900 vuruyorsa , Fr +2 nin fr damagesi 60 ken nasıl 880 vurur 3 te 1 artması gerekliyken 20 damage - 30 damage düşük nasıl vurur bir item Fiyatı ise 8k kc (250 TL )  


Yarına kadar melenin damagesini düşürüp , Yüzüklerdeki bugu çözmezseniz Biz dahil Bütün mage klanlar Server'ı bırakacak Sizde burda hala daha ağlayan 2-3 tane denyoyla devam edersiniz.. 

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You wanted server like official so dont cry now on usko mages need 2-3 party to run in cz

I am just saying it isn't fun when mages do that. Not even the best meele teams stands a chance against 18 Well timed novas, following 18 more.

 

However on the private server scene most turk mage clans consist of 8 ppl and they will simply quit the server and go to a server where they can fight 8v8.

 

This topic is basically warriors claiming the skill isn't OP so they can go back to cz and kill an entire mage pt with 4 warriors :-)

 

Don't forget mages has been nerfed plenty of times. The damages has been lowered and the stun rate is non existing.

 

Also can someone translate what the turks are saying?

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Hey everyone,

 

I've done some testing and comparing between both classes' AoE; 

 

The AoE (Berserk Echo) from warriors (255 str, 177 hp) to mages (255 mp, 160 int, 57 hp) deals about the same as a mage's Nova / Meteor Fall deals to a warrior in both starter gear (mage in HP set) and high-end gear (+11 reverse Krowaz weapons, +8 krowaz armor, +2 accessories). Both the warrior and the mage were fully buffed (2k, 350ac, atk+, weapon/armor enchant, lion scroll), and no debuffs were applied.

 

When considering the following :

 

1. Warriors have a ton more HP compared to mages

2. Warriors have a ton more defense compared to mages

3. Warriors have very strong single target skills

4. Warriors have decent to teleport to (close by) party members, whereas mages only have channeled teleports (except for blink, but that's not as widespread on mages as decent is on warriors)

5. The fact the warrior has 4 AoE skills (300%, 250%, 200%, 150%) - where 300% is equal to the damage of 1 nova, effectively giving them 3 novas when all skills have been used, and mages have only 2.

6. The fact the warrior has no channel time on any of the AoEs, cannot be cancelled, and can be done while on the move, whereas mages have ~1.3s cast times on both AoEs, can be cancelled if they're hit while channeling, and have to be stationary while casting, on top of being faster to pump out (general physical skill combo cooldown vs. the entire skill cast time)

 

My conclusion is as follows :

 

Warriors should be strong, they should be tanky, and they should deal tons of damage to single targets, they should not however be on par in terms of AoE damage with a class that has to sacrifice a lot of things to be able to get the same AoE damage output (immobility + squishiness). We will therefore be nerfing warrior AoE damage to a point where counterplay from mages becomes an option. This balance will be hard to get right, and may take some time to get right, but we're confident that with help from the community we'll be able to nail this and make it more fun for both warriors and mages alike.

 

I'd like to hear from both warriors and mages what they think about what I just wrote down, trolls will be ignored ^_^

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sure those powerfull mages are complaining when strong melee parties are playing good together and kicking their asses.

i think the best solution for this would be to add that undy scroll to pus, this would make them weak classes stronger.

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Dont forget that warriors AOE comes usually after aoe debuff (torment). 

IMHO Aesteris made good decision and I support it. :)

It would be a shame to see any of the mage clans leave because of warriors aoe being too OP.

Undy scroll is really bad idea - how would it make only weak classes stronger?

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Hey everyone,
 
I've done some testing and comparing between both classes' AoE; 
 
The AoE (Berserk Echo) from warriors (255 str, 177 hp) to mages (255 mp, 160 int, 57 hp) deals about the same as a mage's Nova / Meteor Fall deals to a warrior in both starter gear (mage in HP set) and high-end gear (+11 reverse Krowaz weapons, +8 krowaz armor, +2 accessories). Both the warrior and the mage were fully buffed (2k, 350ac, atk+, weapon/armor enchant, lion scroll), and no debuffs were applied.
 
When considering the following :
 
1. Warriors have a ton more HP compared to mages
2. Warriors have a ton more defense compared to mages
3. Warriors have very strong single target skills
4. Warriors have decent to teleport to (close by) party members, whereas mages only have channeled teleports (except for blink, but that's not as widespread on mages as decent is on warriors)
5. The fact the warrior has 4 AoE skills (300%, 250%, 200%, 150%) - where 300% is equal to the damage of 1 nova, effectively giving them 3 novas when all skills have been used, and mages have only 2.
6. The fact the warrior has no channel time on any of the AoEs, cannot be cancelled, and can be done while on the move, whereas mages have ~1.3s cast times on both AoEs, can be cancelled if they're hit while channeling, and have to be stationary while casting, on top of being faster to pump out (general physical skill combo cooldown vs. the entire skill cast time)
 
My conclusion is as follows :
 
Warriors should be strong, they should be tanky, and they should deal tons of damage to single targets, they should not however be on par in terms of AoE damage with a class that has to sacrifice a lot of things to be able to get the same AoE damage output (immobility + squishiness). We will therefore be nerfing warrior AoE damage to a point where counterplay from mages becomes an option. This balance will be hard to get right, and may take some time to get right, but we're confident that with help from the community we'll be able to nail this and make it more fun for both warriors and mages alike.
 
I'd like to hear from both warriors and mages what they think about what I just wrote down, trolls will be ignored ^_^

 

Şunun türkçeye çevirecek varmı ?

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Interesting topic.

 

To put it simple, the passion warrior's AOE skills are just absurd. And my opinion is unbiased since I never played a mage clan, on the contraire, always played melee (and when the range of the skill was broken) and it was beyond easy to eradicate them, I can't even imagine how easy it is now, with the skill fixed.

 

Whoever was hired to created skills at this game, after 15xx version, should be fired. The problem is that not only the dmg is great but the main issue is that there's almost no casting animation and there's 4 of those skills. So not only they can be instanly used but they also don't even need to be properly timed. 

 

And to summarize this subject, I honestly think that it will be extremely unhealthy for the server the leave that skill like this.

 

My suggestion:

 

1) Disable/remove completely the 3 "weaker" AOE skills and leave only the stronger one. This way people will actually have to time it properly and put some effort into it and if you miss your chance or one or 2 warriors miss the timing, mages can breath and run away and try to do their thing.

 

OR (probably the best option)

 

2) Move all the 4 AOE skills to the Attack skills' tree. This is what they should've done in official. There's literally no reason whatsoever to play Attack warrior anymore. It is extinct. People who play it only do because they're not familiar with passion mode. So this might ressurect Attack mode and maybe make it viable again making people consider what's best for them. This could be very interesting.

 

3) Apply both suggestions and 2 BUT nerf (a bit) the single AOE that was left for the Passion tree.

 

Good iniciative by the staff on making this topic.

 

Cheers!

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Dont forget that warriors AOE comes usually after aoe debuff (torment). 

IMHO Aesteris made good decision and I support it. :)

It would be a shame to see any of the mage clans leave because of warriors aoe being too OP.

Undy scroll is really bad idea - how would it make only weak classes stronger?

not only the weak classes but all classes, this is the way its in official and they dont much complain about this issue there do they?

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Hey everyone,
 
I've done some testing and comparing between both classes' AoE; 
 
The AoE (Berserk Echo) from warriors (255 str, 177 hp) to mages (255 mp, 160 int, 57 hp) deals about the same as a mage's Nova / Meteor Fall deals to a warrior in both starter gear (mage in HP set) and high-end gear (+11 reverse Krowaz weapons, +8 krowaz armor, +2 accessories). Both the warrior and the mage were fully buffed (2k, 350ac, atk+, weapon/armor enchant, lion scroll), and no debuffs were applied.
 
When considering the following :
 
1. Warriors have a ton more HP compared to mages
2. Warriors have a ton more defense compared to mages
3. Warriors have very strong single target skills
4. Warriors have decent to teleport to (close by) party members, whereas mages only have channeled teleports (except for blink, but that's not as widespread on mages as decent is on warriors)
5. The fact the warrior has 4 AoE skills (300%, 250%, 200%, 150%) - where 300% is equal to the damage of 1 nova, effectively giving them 3 novas when all skills have been used, and mages have only 2.
6. The fact the warrior has no channel time on any of the AoEs, cannot be cancelled, and can be done while on the move, whereas mages have ~1.3s cast times on both AoEs, can be cancelled if they're hit while channeling, and have to be stationary while casting, on top of being faster to pump out (general physical skill combo cooldown vs. the entire skill cast time)
 
My conclusion is as follows :
 
Warriors should be strong, they should be tanky, and they should deal tons of damage to single targets, they should not however be on par in terms of AoE damage with a class that has to sacrifice a lot of things to be able to get the same AoE damage output (immobility + squishiness). We will therefore be nerfing warrior AoE damage to a point where counterplay from mages becomes an option. This balance will be hard to get right, and may take some time to get right, but we're confident that with help from the community we'll be able to nail this and make it more fun for both warriors and mages alike.
 
I'd like to hear from both warriors and mages what they think about what I just wrote down, trolls will be ignored ^_^

 

I think you're missing out the entire logic that warrior aoe takes way more skill and precise timing to hit to kill anyone as opposed to mage AOEs. Mage AOE you just say "3 2 1 nova" and there you go, whereas most warrior AOEs that get any kills require a descent + torment + and then an AOE on the same location at the same time shortly after the torment. 

 

Why are we nerfing skills and abilities that require more coordination and execution to pull off than others?

 

On USKO, mages aren't that viable once the server becomes "late-game" and most mage clans during that phase either merge (so you have 2 mage parties novaing all the time together) or they quit, or they transition into a melee clan, because mages shouldn't be viable in late-game PVP simply because of how stupid easy it is to do. 

 

If mages were viable in late-game pvp, you would have 0 melee clans and literally everyone is just going to go play mage, because it's the easiest way to make NPs. 

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not only the weak classes but all classes, this is the way its in official and they dont much complain about this issue there do they?

 

on official mages know how to play against melees though. haven't seen a single mage pt with 2 priests here so far :D

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I think you're missing out the entire logic that warrior aoe takes way more skill and precise timing to hit to kill anyone as opposed to mage AOEs. Mage AOE you just say "3 2 1 nova" and there you go, whereas most warrior AOEs that get any kills require a descent + torment + and then an AOE on the same location at the same time shortly after the torment. 

 

Why are we nerfing skills and abilities that require more coordination and execution to pull off than others?

 

On USKO, mages aren't that viable once the server becomes "late-game" and most mage clans during that phase either merge (so you have 2 mage parties novaing all the time together) or they quit, or they transition into a melee clan, because mages shouldn't be viable in late-game PVP simply because of how stupid easy it is to do. 

 

If mages were viable in late-game pvp, you would have 0 melee clans and literally everyone is just going to go play mage, because it's the easiest way to make NPs. 

 

I have no doubt the warrior AoE of death is harder to pull off, however I don't think it should be as lethal as it is, effectively only nerfing it as much as is needed to allow for mages to counterplay something which is currently nearly unavoidable and punish warriors who screw up a little harder.

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